In nearly 70 episodes of Data Malarkey – the podcast about using data, smarter – this conversation marks a first: two guests sharing the stage. That pairing matters. Karen Dobres and Charlie Dobres are not only partners in life but also collaborators in one of the most distinctive experiments in modern football: the transformation of Lewes FC into what’s become known as Equality FC.
Changing the culture …
Their story is not a conventional football narrative. Karen came to the game late, and reluctantly. Her early impressions – shaped by male-dominated crowds, limited representation, and a sense of exclusion – reflect a wider truth about the sport’s culture. For decades, football in England was not simply male-dominated; it was structurally shaped to be so. The banning of women’s football between 1921 and 1971 created a long shadow, limiting participation, visibility, and investment.
… changing the wallpaper
The turning point came in 2017, when Lewes FC made a decision that was both simple and radical: to allocate equal playing budgets to its men’s and women’s teams. The principle was clear. The implications were not. There was no established commercial model to follow, and little external support at the outset. The decision was rooted in values rather than forecasts.
From that foundation, the club set about changing not just finances, but culture. Equality FC was never only about pay. It extended to facilities, marketing, visibility, and – crucially – esteem. As Charlie describes it, the aim was to change “the wallpaper”: the underlying assumptions about who football is for, and how it should feel.
Redirecting attention
Karen’s role in this transformation focused on attention. If the women’s game lacked audiences, it was not because of a lack of interest, but a lack of awareness and invitation. Her approach was deliberately unconventional. Rather than targeting existing football fans, she sought out those who felt excluded from the sport – “people who don’t like football” – and invited them in through different cultural cues, from community partnerships to symbolic gestures within the stadium.
This strategy worked because it reframed the proposition. Lewes was not simply offering football; it was offering participation in a broader social idea. The result was increased media coverage, new audiences, and a growing base of owners and sponsors. The club became, in Karen’s words, a “disruptor brand”.
Beyond a zero-sum proposition
Over time, the model evolved. As the women’s team progressed up the league structure, funding shifted from equality towards equity: allocating resources based on need and opportunity. Commercial partnerships followed, along with tangible improvements such as a state-of-the-art pitch funded through the women’s game. The benefits flowed across the whole club, demonstrating that equality was not a zero-sum proposition.
The broader implications extend beyond Lewes. Debates about disparities in football – from prize money to player salaries – often rely on current revenue as justification. But, as both Karen and Charlie argue, those figures reflect historical inequalities as much as present realities. Data, in this context, can explain the past, but it should not be used to limit the future.
Summing up
Perhaps the most striking outcome is cultural rather than financial. Independent research among Lewes FC’s supporters suggests that a significant proportion have changed their attitudes to gender equality as a result of the club’s approach. That shift – which is subtle, cumulative, and difficult to quantify – may be the most important return of all.
For a podcast about using data smarter, this episode of Data Malarkey offers a useful reminder. Data can guide decisions, but it cannot replace judgment. Sometimes, the most consequential choices begin not with evidence, but with intent.
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The first draft of this blog was written by ChatGPT, using a transcript of the episode and an ever-refined prompt. It was then edited by real humans.